Disha Ravi is a Fridays for Future climate activist who spent ten days in jail, charged with sedition by the government of India. She tells her story in the premiere episode of Planet v. Profit.
In this interview with Kristy Lang, climate activist Disha Ravi discusses the events that led up to her arrest on sedition charges after she posted an online toolkit provided by the youth climate organization Fridays for Future. Disha endured ten days in jail, as well as public attacks by Indian mainstream media and social media trolls.
Kirsty and Disha discuss how the Indian government is using sedition charges and the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) to suppress climate activism. Disha shares how her arrest has made her feel more brave about her activism, even in the face of criticism online and off.
Planet v. Profit is a podcast from Global Witness that holds power to account. This series of audio investigations provides a new way for you to engage with our reporting and keep you informed about the climate crisis and human rights issues that matter to you.
Month by month, as our investigations unfold, you’ll experience the relationships between autocratic governments and extractive corporate power, human rights and the climate emergency.
Planet v. Profit reveals the tangled relationships among the powerful and their thirst for profit, the fight of indigenous peoples to protect their ancestral land, and how governments and corporations go to extreme lengths to mislead us all about it.
Join us every month for new episodes as we take you into the heart of our investigations using immersive audio storytelling as well as audiobook-style long reads of our most compelling investigative journalism. To stay up-to-date with all our investigations, you can also join our mailing list, and follow us on Twitter and Instagram.
Find all episodes of Planet v. Profit on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, as well as on the Global Witness website and wherever you like to listen to podcasts.
FIND THE FACTS | EXPOSE THE STORY | CHANGE THE SYSTEM
https://twitter.com/Global_Witness
https://www.instagram.com/global_witness/
Kristy Lang:
Our climate is in crisis, from the palm oil industry's human rights abuses to climate disinformation spreading online, from fossil fuels and illicit mining propping up violent regimes to big banks financing tropical deforestation. And always, the defenders and activists risking their life to stand up for their land against profiteering corporations and repressive governments. We'll be hearing their stories. I'm Kristy Lang. This is Planet v. Profit.
Disha Ravi:
Suddenly, there were 150 people. A bus shows up and drops off 50 people. And apparently, the school that focuses on environmental education heard about the strike and they brought all their kids together on a bus, and it was so nice. We didn't even know we had to do media things and we had to tell the media we're having a strike.
Kristy Lang:
Disha Ravi lives on the outskirts of Bengaluru. She's 23 and very active in the climate movement and on social media.
Disha Ravi:
It was Saturday morning. I was just grateful that it will be the weekend soon. I did have some work to finish up.
Kristy Lang:
One Saturday last February, Disha was at home with her family when there was a knock on the door.
Disha Ravi:
They were just in plain clothes, and they just said they wanted to ask a few questions. And I was like, "Sure, come in." My mom was panicking a lot because she is so wary, doesn't do well with authority kind of person, and she was panicking. I was panicking, and I think we just spent the entire day in the questioning. My mom made them tea because she's nice like that.
News Reader:
A 22-year-old environmental activist has been arrested for allegedly sharing a toolkit on farmers' protest with Greta Thunberg. Disha Ravi was arrested by Delhi police on Saturday from her Bengaluru residence on charges of sedition and criminal conspiracy.
Kristy Lang:
It was the police. They arrested her. They shoved her in a car and took her more than 1300 miles north to the Indian capital. Why so far, you might ask. Well, because these were officers from the Delhi Police Cyber Crime Unit, and they charged Disha with sedition, one of the most serious crimes in India's penal code. It can carry a life sentence.
Kristy Lang:
Now, the great irony of this charge is that it was the British colonial powers who established the concept of sedition in the 19th century. In fact, they used it to suppress and criminalize the then growing Indian independence movement. Today, the Indian government is using that same 19th century law to prosecute climate activists.
Disha Ravi:
I was questioning why this was all happening in the first place. I wasn't sure why this was even an issue and why it was being blown out of proportion when it was so innocuous.
Kristy Lang:
Disha's alleged crime was editing an online document, a so-called toolkit, which activists used to help her promote causes online. In court in Delhi, Disha made an impassioned, tearful appeal to the judge. She said she'd only edited two lines of this so-called toolkit to show her support for protests organized by farmers in India.
Kristy Lang:
The police claimed that Disha was taking part in a "coordinated international conspiracy to wage economic, social, cultural, and regional war against India". Strong words. However, critics of the Indian government say this arrest is part of a wider crackdown by the nationalist administration led by prime minister Narendra Modi on many forms of so-called "anti-national activism". Those are his words, especially climate and human rights activists.
Kristy Lang:
Disha spent 10 days in New Delhi jail, a long way from her family. Fortunately, there was international outrage, and she was eventually released on bail and allowed to travel home to Bengaluru and her family. One year on, the investigation's made little headway. Neither Google nor Zoom are responding to queries by investigators. And in October, The Indian Express newspaper reported that police are unlikely to file a charge sheet. In the process, Disha has become an inspirational icon to activists around the world, a symbol of grassroots resistance to authoritarian government and climate breakdown.
Kristy Lang:
Disha, it's great to have you with us on Planet v. Profit. I'm not going to ask you about your arrest because that is subject to legal proceedings, and we don't, in any way, want to jeopardize things for you. But I'd really like to hear your story and how you became a climate activist. I mean, what got you involved?
Disha Ravi:
I started my climate activism ironically, because my grandparents are also farmers, and they had to suffer to the water crisis when I was quite young and they didn't have enough water. And it was those stories that led me to start my climate activism, and it was the questioning of how this isn't just a problem that my grandparents face, but the larger country as well. Millions of people in India don't have access to water and sanitation, which is the most basic of our needs. It is intrinsically tied to the climate crisis that's happening. And even the IPCC report that came up yesterday said as much that India is going to be one of the most impacted countries because of the climate crisis.
Kristy Lang:
I'm interested in your grandparents. I mean, just tell us a little story about there you are, I don't know. How are you? Are you a teenager by this time? What happens on the farm? Does the well dry up? Give us a picture of what they were living through.
Disha Ravi:
So when I was quite young, my grandmother would always wake up at very odd hours like 4:00 AM. And she always told that... She say that good luck in the farm starts very early, unlike you city folks that [inaudible 00:05:55]. I did find it a bit odd back then. And later, she told me it's because she has to go switch on the water that flows into the farm, because they have allocated timings for water and they're only given a certain duration. And this was largely because the underground water in that particular region had dried up. And she had to wake up very early because they also didn't have electricity. They only had electricity from 6:00 PM in the evening till 6:00 AM, and then it's gone.
Kristy Lang:
It wasn't until Disha was 18 and learned more about how India's water was sourced that she made the connection. You see, India is the world's largest user of underground water. And that is being used faster than nature can replenish it. Her grandparents' village was at risk because it was dependent on this vanishing water source. And at the same time, the region was subject to more and more extreme weather events.
Disha Ravi:
I don't think I've heard many stories from them, particularly, because like I said, climate change isn't a topic that people are even aware of even though they face the impacts of it every day. Because in my local language, Kannada, I don't think we even have a word for climate change. It isn't something that's in that textbooks. It's not something we learn about. It's not something that's ever covered, like I said, by mainstream media. So people don't understand that this is a topic that is already impacting them.
Disha Ravi:
So my grandparents, even when the water crisis happened, accepted it as something that happens to every single person. They blamed it actually on bad governance and the fact that the leaders back in Delhi also had promised them water and it never came. So all of this was the stories that I heard and also had to watch then. I was a very small child, and I didn't realize it's because of the climate crisis because I thought this was the norm.
Disha Ravi:
The truth remains that I live in Bangalore, which is a city that's running out of underground water really, really fast, and it is something that's going to impact us very soon. That is essentially what started me on my climate activism journey.
Kristy Lang:
Now, you set up an Indian chapter of Fridays for the Future, which was started by the Swedish teenager Greta Thunberg. For listeners who don't know, can you just explain the significance of Fridays and how that movement operates and why you decided to set up the chapter?
Disha Ravi:
I was initially partaking in local activities around environment and citizen participation, and I realized that it's very environment-focused, but not as much as on climate. And there is a difference between the two. And while I do consider environment an important part of what I do, I did think there was a need for emphasizing on climate, on rising temperatures, and how this is going to impact us.
Disha Ravi:
I didn't find that happening as much in India, and that's essentially why we started Friday for Future in India. But it started on social media, ironically. I forced it, saying, "Hey, we also need to do this because this is hitting us harder than it will hit European..." It did start off in the main cities, but now, we're spread to rural India. We have chapters that are led by completely indigenous people themselves.
Kristy Lang:
On March the 15th, 2019, Disha was part of the first global strike from Fridays for Future. Millions of students across 125 countries participated. Later in localities around Bengaluru, students continued to strike every Friday until the pandemic hit.
Disha Ravi:
We had no idea how to organize a strike. We were all young, and we posted on our personal accounts. We told friends and friends of friends. I went to all the classes in my college and told everyone to come. I don't think anyone really took us seriously. I didn't expect people to show up at all. I thought it'd be 20 people, all friends of friends who came out of social obligation.
Kristy Lang:
Did you have posters or banners that you held up?
Disha Ravi:
We had posters. We had posters that we made from discarded cardboard sheets, old exam papers. And we wrote on back of exam papers, and that's all we had. We just had posters and we had our demands. We didn't even know we had to do media things and we had to tell the media we're having strike. But somehow, they showed up. They showed up. I don't know how they showed up, but they showed up. But yeah, we learned a lot about organizing since the first protest, but it was a very endearing family.
Kristy Lang:
So you do this first protest outside your school, outside your college, and then it starts to grow, does it? It starts to take off your Fridays?
Disha Ravi:
Yeah, I think a lot of people, especially on the global strike, it wasn't just us in Bangalore doing it. It was people across India, in Delhi and Mumbai, in Shillong and Pune, and other smaller cities that we don't even think people wanted to do that thing. But they came out and they reached out to us on social media. They emailed us, and they reached out on how to proceed on how to start chapter. And we were like, "Hey, we don't know how to do that either. We're figuring it out."
Disha Ravi:
But I think all of us just came together to figure out how to do this. We reached out to environmentalists who've been doing this for a while, older environmentalists. And India has a very rich history that way of older environmentalists. We reached out to other activists in women's rights, LGBTQ rights, on how they organized. And it was a learning process from them on how people really come together and mobilize for a particular issue. I mean, I'm obviously very grateful for them. We still work very actively with them because we strongly, strongly believe in collaboration.
Kristy Lang:
What did your parents think when you started doing this?
Disha Ravi:
My parents thought it was just some weekend activity where I was going to plant trees and clean garbage, and they were fine with it. I did tell them it's a strike, and they did trust me on that. And they're like, "As long as you're safe, okay with whatever you do."
Kristy Lang:
But clearly, it was more dangerous than any of you anticipated.
Disha Ravi:
Yeah.
Kristy Lang:
Now, your alleged crime for which you were arrested was editing a toolkit, an online toolkit. Can you explain what that is exactly? What kind of things were in that toolkit?
Disha Ravi:
A toolkit is essentially a document, a guide of sorts. We call it a recipe, almost. Say, if you wanted to make pancakes, there are 50 recipes online about how to make pancakes. A toolkit is essentially the same thing. It's a guide on how to support an ongoing action, whatever it is. If it's an action for organizing people to donate books, this is how you can do it. These are the different ways you can post it. You can send PDFs of books you have, or you can urge your friends to do it and all of that. So it's very similar to that.
Kristy Lang:
As I've said, we can't discuss your arrest in detail because it's still subjudice. But I mean, why do you think the government is cracking down on climate activists in India? What do they find threatening?
Disha Ravi:
It's not just climate. I mean, environmental and climate activists have been drawn to attacks from the government from a really long time. And it's often, these don't even make it to the news. A lot of images, people in India are arrested for protesting against coal mines on a daily basis, and they never, ever make it to the news. They're beaten. That's actually harassed in prison, and it never makes it to mainstream news. It rarely makes it to the indie news, as I call it, but...
Kristy Lang:
Oh, you mean the independent news outlets? It doesn't even make it to that. These arrests and this crackdown is so common. It doesn't even get media coverage.
Disha Ravi:
It really doesn't, because environmentalism in India is seen in two polarizing ends in the sense it's either an issue of indigenous people or Adivasis, or it's an issue of the urban elite, which is really not the case. But because of this, it's often never covered by mainstream media, and my arrest was definitely different than that because it blew up. But that was also largely because the police issued statements against me and the mainstream media vilified me as some sort of terrorist that's trying to take over the country or something.
News Reader:
A toolkit allegedly to spread protest, unrest, and anarchy shared and then deleted by Swedish climate activist, Greta Thunberg. A sinister plot to create unrest in India posted.
News Reader:
We are talking of the day's biggest story. The day's biggest story is coming in from the national capital where the toolkit kingpin, who had co-authored the entire document in collaboration with pro-Khalistani group. The point in justice foundation now has been arrested by the Delhi police. And yes, this is a fallout of what happened on the streets of Delhi on January the 26th. Never forget those scenes of violence. What happened at the-
Kristy Lang:
Can you describe in a little bit more detail how some of the accusations against you in the media? Are you able to talk about that in the mainstream media?
Disha Ravi:
Yeah. I haven't watched all of it because it was horrible. And also, I was in custody. And after I came out, I didn't want to watch all of it. But a lot of it, they firstly hounded my mother to this large extent where she couldn't leave my house to even meet the lawyers, literally go to the groceries. So she couldn't do it. They took out little things from my previous interviews on climate activism. Went to an extent to start a large degree to say that this was an international conspiracy to overthrow the government, something, something, that there was violence that happened on some other day that was connected to this somehow, and I was a terrorist. I was being funded by international organizations. I knew Rihanna, which I do not. I do not know Rihanna when I wish I knew Rihanna.
Kristy Lang:
You mean Rihanna the pop star?
Disha Ravi:
Yeah, the pop star. Because she tweeted support of the farmers saying, "Why aren't we talking about this?" And they connected me to Rihanna. They vilified Rihanna, connecting me to Rihanna, saying Rihanna is funding this whole thing. And I'm just like, "This is wild."
Kristy Lang:
Now, I mentioned that you were charged with sedition, which was brought in by the British colonial authorities in the 19th century. I mean, just tell us a little bit more about that charge and why it's being used by the Modi administration.
Disha Ravi:
Sedition is very commonly used. There's actually quite an interesting pattern they follow. So the first time, they usually charge people, activists, anyone, mostly human rights or any other rights that they think is... It doesn't even take much to hurt their sentiments. It's as simple as going against or having a different opinion from theirs. That's it. That is how much you need to do to hurt their sentiments to get them to be breathing down your neck with legal charges.
Disha Ravi:
And they particularly use sedition as a startup. The minute you do something they consider disrespectful or an opinion that hurts them, they charge you with sedition. You're arrested, picked up, and it's quite hard. There are people... I was very lucky to have gotten bail in 10 days. It literally never happens. And I do believe it's largely from public outrage. And that happened in India as well as across the world. But that's not the case for other people in India, especially people from more marginalized communities like Dalits or indigenous people or Muslims. And sometimes, it's been two years without them getting a bail.
Disha Ravi:
And then after sedition, if the person goes on to still continue their work and whatever they're doing, often hurting their sentiments further, they get charged with the UAPA, which is a more stringent law in which bail is nearly impossible, in which process is quite literally the punishment. There are people who are under trials in prison for years without getting bail. There are datas that show that three or five people in Indian prisons are under trials, whose trial hasn't even started, but they're literally there because the bail hasn't come through or it won't come through because they are under the UAPA, the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act.
Disha Ravi:
The UAPA basically gives the police and the state so much authority that they can arrest them without an arrest warrant. They can arrest them without giving an explanation as to why they're arresting them. They don't have to go through a lot of red tape before they arrest a person. So there has been the usage of laws to arrest the centers and silence them because... And they recognize the people that are leading movements basically to hit the person, the movement, truly.
Kristy Lang:
If you pick out the people who are shouting the loudest or who are the noisiest on social media, you arrest them and you charge them, presumably that intimidates others. You are a 22-year-old college student organizing a fairly sort of, as in your own words, amateurish protest outside your college with slogans written on old exam sheets and so on. And then you find yourself charged with crimes against the state. I mean, that's a lot. How has your life changed in the last couple of years? What's that meant for you?
Disha Ravi:
I think in a way that I have noticed is when my arrest made front page news and not just Indian news, but international news, it really helped people understand what the climate movement does in India, and that there is a climate movement. I mean, people knew before, of course, because there's a very rich history, but it was a more ignored stance in India. And I think in some ways, just making it to the front, the vilification did make it a conversation. It started a conversation about how environmentalism and climate issues are something that they need to focus on.
Disha Ravi:
And I'm very grateful for that, obviously. I'm very grateful for the media attention I get. I can because I know that saved me in a lot of ways. And I'm very grateful that more people are starting to report on climate issues. I do believe that my arrest had some role to play in it just because of how much backlash there was in terms of media. It's a really rare feeling to have done that because it wasn't a pleasant experience for me, but there was an outcome that was something I wanted.
Kristy Lang:
I mean, let's talk about the unpleasantness though. Because I mean, wherever you are in the world, it is a sad fact that women activists and politicians and journalists and so on get some pretty nasty attacks on social media when they do the kind of things that you've done. I mean, I'm assuming that you got that as well.
ACTOR:
She is an attention seeker, half-literate, low-IQ woman. Now this is her bread and butter, the paid activism with social media that has also become a booming industry.
ACTOR:
She's choosing 800 trees of a metro system that will probably save millions of tons in vehicular CO2 emissions per year. Is she brain dead or something?
Kristy Lang:
That must be... I mean, can you tell us about that and how upsetting that was?
Disha Ravi:
My social media was actually deactivated throughout my arrest, so I luckily didn't have to come back and read a lot of the stuff. But I did activate it once I was out. And there's this pouring messages coming in from around the country of deep-rooted hatred for me, which I find really surprising because the work we're doing is for everyone. It's not just for one particular group of people. It's to protect everyone, so it's really weird for me to get hatred. Sometimes, there were even death threats coming in. A lot of this is like, "Oh, how did you get off out of jail? Go back to jail." And it's obviously very triggering to read those things. It happens even today.
Kristy Lang:
And rape, did you get rape threats? Because that's very common against a female activist.
Disha Ravi:
I did. I deleted them because I didn't want to watch or see them. I have not... Maybe in retrospect, I should have probably saved them and filed something, but I didn't. They have reviews now. I don't remember getting any recently also because I am a serial blocker of anyone who is sending these things, and I just delete them because I don't want to read them.
Disha Ravi:
But even today, I think Instagram for me has been a little safer. But in Twitter, especially the minute I read anything political, anything... I mean, in terms of even the environment, climate, well if I make it political and because it is political, I get a bunch of comments and then even more DMs. And then I get quote feeder, very horrible things, and it's obviously very jarring. Recently, we had a women's March in Bangalore that I posted about, and there were a bunch of comments and then I spent the day blocking each of the comment. But it really makes me want to never be on social media because it's so jarring to read all of them, but I also recognize how important it is for me to use the platform I have to spread the message of climate and environmental issues in India.
Kristy Lang:
Are you frightened for your personal safety? I mean, do you take precautions now when you go out to protect yourself? In what way has your life changed in that sense?
Disha Ravi:
Luckily, the media memory is short. I don't engage with a lot of mainstream media who will find me and now want me on their panels because they're just going to use everything I say out of context or edit it in a way that will make me seem like a bad person. You don't really want any climate masting. You just want to vilify me, so I know that much. My face doesn't get thrown there a lot. It does come off from time to time, but people don't necessarily remember. People do recognize me sometimes when I'm on the metro or the bus, but these are nice people. I haven't had to encounter anyone who would have threatened me, so I haven't taken any measures in that sense.
Kristy Lang:
In Indian terms, when you say the mainstream media, what you are referring to is the state-controlled media. Am I correct?
Disha Ravi:
Yeah, but I quite literally mean mainstream media. News outlets, most of them in India that people sit and watch their primetime news on, are all controlled by the state, are all controlled by private corporations because they receive lots, donations from them. And they are state-controlled, wholly.
Disha Ravi:
In India, the large majority of the country watches TV for their news. And when these people are the ones vilifying children or vilifying activists, this is what the larger population believes. Even newspapers that are really popular. I wouldn't say... They're not state-owned, but they're state-controlled in the sense that the newspaper agencies either receive donations from them or they are scared of them or often both. They don't do journalism for the public. They do journalism for the state. What's really honest? The prime minister has never in his term from 2014 has given a public conference, ever. Has never taken questions. He has given interviews to the mainstream media outlets, but he had never done a press conference.
INTERVIEWER
We and some, we're very concerned about climate change and its consequences. So how can you help and guide us to protect our pristine environment?
ACTOR:
See how these days, even small kids are discussing about climate change and environment change. 70, 80, 85, or 90 years, old people, often during winters. You'll notice that they say it's colder this year than ever before. Don't they say such things?
Actually it's not any colder. Their capacity to tolerate cold has reduced due to aging. In the same manner, the climate hasn't changed. We have changed.
Kristy Lang:
Let's talk about your prime minister, Narendra Modi. What is his stance on the climate crisis? How would you sum that up?
Disha Ravi:
Oh my God. This is hilarious, because recently in one of the UN summits, I'm not sure, I can't remember which right now, but in 2014 he said climate is always changing. And in this recent summit this year, just I think weeks ago, he said it's not that the climate is not resilient. It's us who are making fake promises and who aren't protecting the environment. It was really, really bizarre because if it was a climate activist that had written it, it would have been beautiful. But coming from a man who has so much authority to change quite literally everything about the environmental and climate space in India, it was hilarious. He always uses the geopolitics card, the equally card, to say that India doesn't have as much responsibility.
Disha Ravi:
And it is true. We don't have the same responsibility that the global North countries have, but the fact that we aren't even focusing on climate environment, except for vilifying activists, is very concerning. We are opening coal mines after coal mines. And India isn't a country that can shut down coal mines overnight because we're heavy dependent on it. So we can't phase it out the next year, but it will be a process of just transition and the plans to actually move away from coal to cleaner energies. But we have zero research on how we can implement that in the country because it's so underfunded. We don't even want to move away from coal eventually. That's not even on the charts.
Disha Ravi:
We have been diluting every single environmental law there is that protects the environment. The government recently released the forest report where it always shows that the forest cover's increasing, but the definition of forest have been weakened so much that farms and plantations of cotton are considered forest, or even a large garden with trees closely together is considered a forest. So they're manipulating data to show that they're doing good environmentally, but the truth is that he has so much power and he's using all his power to destroy environment, steal indigenous people's land, cut down forest, rake mines.
Kristy Lang:
You're painting quite a sort of grim picture. What is the future of Indian climate activism do you think? I mean, are you hopeful in any way?
Disha Ravi:
I'm very hopeful because I have realized that when you're in the climate movement and when you're getting yourself quite literally the world collapsing, hope is something you have to actively practice every day. Because if we don't imagine a better world, we won't be able to achieve the better world. And my hope really comes from people I work with, young children. They're so amazing. And just people across the environmental and climate space in India, they're so amazing because they don't think twice about helping you. They always have your back. And more importantly, they're in this because they want to see a better future and a better present for themselves. Asking for a better planet is not a crime, and my hope comes from them. And I do hope that we overcome this.
Kristy Lang:
You strike me, Disha, as an incredibly brave young woman. Do you feel brave?
Disha Ravi:
I feel like I had to practice braveness and resiliency when I didn't want to. I don't want to be brave. I don't have to keep fighting for what are my basic rights, because it's not glorious. It's not attractive. It's painful. It's really hard. And it's anxiety-inducing. I've been put in a position where I don't have an option. I can't choose not to fight because my home is getting flooded every time. It rains too much. We're running out of water in some parts of the... One second. Sorry, my mother needs something. One second.
Kristy Lang:
Our conversation's briefly interrupted because Disha's mom needs to come and get something from the room. I'm pleased to catch sight of your mom who sounds very supportive.
Disha Ravi:
So yeah, I don't think I want to be brave because it is very hard to be brave. It is hard to be resilient, because fighting for your rights constantly, it is not glamorous or attractive. It's very painful. And there's just a lot of hardship going on. I don't want to be strong. I want to be soft. I want softness, and I want to swim in the ocean. But these aren't things that will be available for us because of the climate crisis and because of how dissent is being curbed in India. People don't have water or sanitation, which is quite literally the basic human right. So I don't have the option to not be brave resilient. It's embracing the softness I have in me. That is what gives me strength. I do have to be brave, even though I don't want to be brave.
Kristy Lang:
Well, Disha Ravi, I wish you all the best. And I hope that the charges against you are dropped and you can put an end to this pretty scary chapter in your life. Thank you for taking part in Planet v. Profit.
Kristy Lang:
I'm Kristy Lang. You've been listening to Planet v. Profit. Join us next time, wherever you listen to podcasts.
ANNOUNCER:
Planet v. Profit is executive produced by Amy Richards, Louis Wilson, Ana Zeraga, and Rachel Taylor. Music from Epidemic Sound and the Blue Dot Sessions. Edited and mixed by Brendan Welch. Ekemini Ekpo is the assistant producer. Series produced by Lee Schneider. Additional voices by Sean Jane and Jasmine Sharma. Planet v. Profit is a production of Red Cup Agency for Global Witness. Visit globalwitness.org for more information and to join our mailing list.